Filopaludina martensi snail adventure (White Wizard)

[Guppysnail]

I’m so excited!  I was able to get the last 7 this place currently has available. They said they usually stock them but are merging locations so won’t know when the next order comes in. 
 

Here is the picture from the ad on my local band. They get shipped overnight Monday from 2 hours from me. 
 

Had to start the topic now I’m so excited. Two new to me snail varieties at one time. Oh my. 🤩 Crazy snail lady dream  🤣

I will write out the info I know on them later. 
 

Little kid at Xmas had to share the news. 🤣

[Solstice_Lacer]

Lovely colors

[Guppysnail]

What I’ve gleaned so far from YouTube and the internet. 
 

- white shell, creamy yellow foot with a blue snoot (very adorable) pics from internet until mine get here  

       The young are dark colored  as they age the shell turns white/cream.  In many pictures I found new shell growth is dark even on adults.  
       My guess on this is the exterior of the shell is less active like fingernails and “calcifies” (that term because I’m not real certain as this is a guess  I could not find an actual why answer so I’m going to beg help from the pro @Biotope Biologist I’m guessing shell development would be similar in marine species)

- live up to 5 years. 2- 4 is more common in an aquarium 
- 6.5-8.5 ph better over 7 to decrease shell erosion. 
- 68-82 degrees better 70-80

- vivaparus (livebearers)

- omnivore, detritus, algae and filter feeding through siphon tube and gills

- more active at night, shy and startle easily

- males have one shorter thicker antenna, females have two the same

- 5-15 embryo develops at the same time  only one at a time is released  

Standard snail care, feeding, cal/mag requirements their shell is said to be thicker and harder. Also developing live young with strong shells internally I am guessing these two things make cal/mag requirements higher but I’m not certain  

 

The internet is great for generality but nothing beats first hand experience or education knowledge  

Anyone who owns or had owned these please chime in with anything and everything you have personally witnessed or figured out about the lovely creatures, I would appreciate your first hand knowledge! 🤗

HAPPY ADVENTURES…TRY SOMETHING NEW
 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Guppysnail

[BradfordAquatics]

Well I don't have any firsthand knowledge yet, but I also ordered a group of these and am eagerly awaiting their arrival as well!

[Guppysnail]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:13 PM, BradfordAquatics said:

Well I don't have any firsthand knowledge yet, but I also ordered a group of these and am eagerly awaiting their arrival as well!

I am crazy hopeful you start a journal. Following your experiences will help me learn more about them quicker. If you don’t want to do a journal you are welcome to put everything and anything you see/discover here. You can also just post cute pics here as well 🤗

Edited July 22, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Biotope Biologist]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:01 AM, Guppysnail said:

    My guess on this is the exterior of the shell is less active like fingernails and “calcifies” (that term because I’m not real certain as this is a guess  I could not find an actual why answer so I’m going to beg help from the pro @Biotope Biologist I’m guessing shell development would be similar in marine species)

So the reason that there isn’t much info on snail shell growth patterns is because it’s not a straightforward process and we don’t actually know exactly how they do it.

 

From what we can tell and what we do know some hypothesis can be formed however. Just don’t take it as gospel:

 

So to start there is a mucus membrane sac in the mantle of the snails shell that they use to create new shell. It’s located just below the hinge of the operculum on most snails at the base of the first body whorl.

 

From there snails can grow their shells either via the rib or the columella/spire. The spire being the main piece the whorls form from. The ribs being the radiating structures off the spire. See diagram below. Not the best diagram but gives an idea and terminology.

So in a sense it does grow similar to fingernails. Complexity arises when a snail shifts it’s rotational mass especially contra coil where you can get irregular snail shells and weird lips. Since the main mass of the snail shell stays the same (the ribs and spire) the shell can then grow lopsided or top heavy. There are also 3 different phases of snail shell growth that can have complexities and irregularities that also contribute to the equation.

 

This article is a good read and look through their references for more info or if I, as I often do, confused you along the way:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4034611/

Edited July 23, 2022 by Biotope Biologist

[Guppysnail]

@Biotope Biologist thank you so much you did not confuse me. This is fantastic information.  I will read that article this evening. As always I really appreciate your information. 🤗

[Guppysnail]

@OnlyGenusCaps

Absolutely stunning. I’ll do a photo dump of unboxing until I turned the lights out to allow them to settle in. They are in the tank with the Viviparus viviparus Guppy snails, 3 nerites, some bladder snails, neocaridina  and my CPD fry. 
 

It appears their eyestalks are attached further up their antenna. I’ve only seen one so far so I might be seeing things. Here is theirs in comparison to my mystery snail whose eyestalks are attached more to the face. You can see theirs in the video. 
 

STAY TUNED, more to come 🥰

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Oh wow.  I L❤️VE THEM!  

(The shrimp cheerleaders are fun too.)

[Guppysnail]

On 7/26/2022 at 12:04 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Oh wow.  I L❤️VE THEM!  

(The shrimp cheerleaders are fun too.)

Hopefully they will be prolific and I can share them with my forum friends. Online prices were supremely ridiculous and mostly out of stock.  I got lucky with the local folks and only paid $6 each plus overnight shipping because they are 2 hours away. 

[Guppysnail]

Good foot/face shot 

They are borrowers but I have gravel so I have large tufts of Java/Christmas and Riccia moss for them to burrow under

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:09 PM, Guppysnail said:

They are borrowers but I have gravel so I have large tufts of Java/Christmas and Riccia moss for them to burrow under

You could always do a glass dish of sand as well to see if they would like that.

[Guppysnail]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:12 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

You could always do a glass dish of sand as well to see if they would like that.

I have ugf and hob in that tank. The minute they burrow it would get sucked up or under the ugf. I think they will be fine. One is already burrowed under the Riccia. 

[Guppysnail]

They do indeed filter feed.  They put out the siphon tube as soon as spirulina powder and  sera micron hit the water. 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:54 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

So the reason that there isn’t much info on snail shell growth patterns is because it’s not a straightforward process and we don’t actually know exactly how they do it.

Snail shell growth is really interesting!  I have a serious desire to import and hopefully breed a few of the Lake Tanganyika species.  Not serious enough to start gathering permits yet mind you, but I've inquired around about potential exporters to some friends in Tanzania.  One of the big reasons is that they have independently evolved the types of cross layering in their shells that many marine snails species have!  How cool is that?!  It would be like having a miniature conch in a tank!

On 7/27/2022 at 6:57 AM, Guppysnail said:

They do indeed filter feed.  They put out the siphon tube as soon as spirulina powder and  sera micron hit the water.

Okay, these are awesome critters!  I am looking forward to the updates, and may be perusing sites to check availability... 

[Guppysnail]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:15 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

may be perusing sites to check availability... 

if mine breed you are welcome to some. I can give you the contact info for where I got them. They said they are usually in stock.  Most places on the web were outrageous priced for snails. Not unaffordable but enough to irk me. 

[Guppysnail]

@OnlyGenusCaps food preference verdict is in. They have no interest in algae.  I venture to say they are likely worse at actually eating algae than mystery snails.  They have no interest in any veggie I have tried…until it get slimey.  Then they eat the slime but not the veggie. They much prefer wafers and flock to the dish when I put them in.  They love digging for hidden yummies in the substrate. I have seen a few nibbling at biofilm and diatom on glass. They cruise over hair, gsa, bba algae not even meticulously cleaning it like the Viviparus viviparus.  
 

passing thought question….

does anyone think the white wizard and VV can crossbreed?  
 

eating around and under green bean

Digging for treasures

[Odd Duck]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:46 AM, Guppysnail said:

does anyone think the white wizard and VV can crossbreed?

It seems unlikely but I’m just guessing.  Even though both are in the same family of Viviparidae, they are each a different genus.  Viviparus vs Filopaludina.  It is uncommon, but certainly not unheard of, for cross breeding to happen across species but rare for cross breeding to happen across genuses among animals with some exceptions.

I can think of a lot of examples for cross breeding across species and most, but not all, happen in captivity.  Some species of macaw, some species of fish, some species of snakes, a few species of bears, etc, but all are fairly closely related to begin with.  Like hybrids within certain families of cories, between certain cichlids, etc, but you don’t see crossing between cories and cichlids, for instance.  Or even between cichlids and characins which have a more similar body type.  You won’t even see crosses between a Jack Dempsey cichlid (South American for any that don’t know) and a Tropheus cichlid (African) even though they’re both in family Cichlidae.

Many interspecies hybrids are sterile and nearly all interfamilial hybrids are sterile.  Certain fish and orchids are the rare exceptions.

I’m wracking my brain trying to think of a cross between genuses that isn’t in fish or orchids and they’re all man-made.  I’m sure there have been some somewhere, but I’m not coming up with any right off the bat.  In fish there are blood parrots and flowerhorns, which were all purposely created as far as I can figure out.  I know that Texas cichlids and Jack Dempseys can cross but their natural ranges don’t cross so it’s another man-made hybrid.

Orchids have so many crosses it’s crazy but they are man-made as far as I know.  I’m no orchid expert and haven’t dug into this, but I haven’t heard of any off hand.

The only natural crosses I can think of are within a genus, like very closely related birds, snakes, lizards, bears, etc, whose natural ranges overlap so you can see intermediate forms that are a blend between the 2 species.  If anybody knows different about natural interfamilial animal hybrids I’d be interested in learning about it.

 

OK, I’ve now been down the rabbit hole and via intense google and Wikipedia searching, have found multiple man made or captivity triggered interfamilials or in some cases natural crosses in which the previously considered interfamilial crosses where the families have since been reclassified into the same family due to DNA testing.  There are a few interfamilial crosses out there like between some game birds (but natural crosses are extremely rare), and oddly enough even an apparently natural interordinal hybrid between a sea urchin and a sand dollar.

So, to better answer your question @Guppysnail, it seems highly unlikely but potentially possible.

[Guppysnail]

@Odd Duck Thank you. This makes me feel better as I really don’t want crossed. Them sharing a tank is temporary but I would like a larger group of each for separate tanks. I would also think it would be hard to rehome crosses. 🤗

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Ok so low maintenance snail. No cooked food required. 👍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:46 AM, Guppysnail said:

does anyone think the white wizard and VV can crossbreed?

My suspicion is that @Odd Duck is correct, and these two species are sufficiently genetically distinct that cross breeding is highly unlikely. 

On 7/29/2022 at 12:49 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’m wracking my brain trying to think of a cross between genuses that isn’t in fish or orchids and they’re all man-made.

As you mentioned humans have created cross genera hybrids - loads in orchids.  In terms of natural hybridization, with the split of Cylindropuntia from Opuntia, those would qualify as naturally forming intergeneric hybrids.  However, the split is based on morphology and not genetic distance.  Ironically, the massive levels of hybridization between all of the species in that clade means that genetics, which is normally the go-to tool these days for delineating species boundaries, can get murky and fuzzy.  Ah nature.  You never want to fit neatly into our human contrived boxes - I mean except for a well maintained aquarium... 

[Guppysnail]

I have come to the conclusion snails have individual personalities just like humans. 4 of the white wizards and 1 of the Viviparus viviparus snails simply refuse to leave the food bowl. I moved them last week and they beelined back.  I removed the food last night so today they are all over the tank earning their keep.  The other 2 VV and 3 WW would come munch a moment then go about their day. So some are industrious janitors and others lazy gluttons. 🤪

[eatyourpeas]

On 8/2/2022 at 8:40 AM, Guppysnail said:

I have come to the conclusion snails have individual personalities just like humans. 4 of the white wizards and 1 of the Viviparus viviparus snails simply refuse to leave the food bowl. I moved them last week and they beelined back.  I removed the food last night so today they are all over the tank earning their keep.  The other 2 VV and 3 WW would come munch a moment then go about their day. So some are industrious janitors and others lazy gluttons. 🤪

I am about to find out what I have. Just came home from LFS with a Jade Mystery snail. Quite spunky from what I can tell, but still in the bag going through acclimation. Iji killed the remaining Pygmy corydoras and Elmer is wondering what the heck is going on. The Neocaridina are unfazed, of course. Thank you for turning the Mystery snail interest knob to full speed! 😍

[Guppysnail]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:52 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I am about to find out what I have. Just came home from LFS with a Jade Mystery snail. Quite spunky from what I can tell, but still in the bag going through acclimation. Iji killed the remaining Pygmy corydoras and Elmer is wondering what the heck is going on. The Neocaridina are unfazed, of course. Thank you for turning the Mystery snail interest knob to full speed! 😍

I hope you love your new snail. They are so different then other critters. Mystery snails are definitely the class clowns of the snail world 🤗🥰

[eatyourpeas]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:15 PM, Guppysnail said:

I hope you love your new snail. They are so different then other critters. Mystery snails are definitely the class clowns of the snail world 🤗🥰

I do! And he/she now has a name: Mambo! Inspired by the swaying of the tentacles when gliding around... 🐌

Elmer did a very nice detailing job on the shell, now shiny and clean!

Also, I found this interesting article:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/03/discovered-in-the-deep-the-snail-with-iron-armour

Edited August 3, 2022 by eatyourpeas