Geophagus winemilleri... or is it?

Scatocephalus

Piranha
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Jan 4, 2004
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Lately I've been seeing more and more pics of what are supposedly G. winemilleri but I am starting to think that there are at least 2, if not 3 different species circulating through the hobby as winemilleri right now.

Here is a shot of some large wild caught winemileri that Jeff Rapps just received



These fish are probably a little stressed out and are in bare tanks but 3 things jump out at me right away.

1. The shape of the body spot. Very round.
2. The tail pattern. Spotted.
3. Color. Quite yellow and very little blue. Granted, probably not showing their optimum color but very different than mine.

Now, compared to my winemilleri





1. Body spot is more elongated.
2. Tail is most decidely striped.
3. Fis is quite red. Particularly the fins.

I notice that my fish are not nearly as high bodied as Jeff's either. This could be age related of course.

Oh, and for the record, my fish do have the black opercular markings. They just don't show up in the pics for some reason. :irked:

Now compared to other pics floating around the web.

These fish most remind me of what I have.











Any thoughts or input? Obviously coloration can be greatly affected by surroundings and diet but the tail pattern and spot shape seem to be pretty set traits. It's how many of the Geophagus species are identified.

Just for the record, my fish also came from Jeff Rapps as juveniles that were imported from Germany.

I'd like to see more pics of members here fish for comparison.

I'm also trying to find the original description to see if there are any hints that can be gleaned. If anyone has it, I'd love to read it.
 

ryansmith83

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The ones in the first picture look really odd. I don't know that I've ever seen Geos so tall or "humpback" before.
 

JK47

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ryansmith83;4858302; said:
The ones in the first picture look really odd. I don't know that I've ever seen Geos so tall or "humpback" before.
This is just my opinion but I think they are often confused with Geophagus proximus, they are for me anyway. Look at the last pic as an example.. The below credit to Weidner's book:

Characters of the species: Adult G. proximus have a very "high body" for a Geophagus. Males having a prounounced nuchal gibbosity.
 

Scatocephalus

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I agree that the last pic could indeed be proximus. The body spot exceeds the upper part of the lateral line by quite a bit.

I think that if anyone ever does a detailed reorganization of the Geophagus genus we're going to find that there are a LOT of geographical variations amongst the same species. I also think that there will be a number of new species, if not new genre, that come out of it.

This is why I think it is so critical to try and get the collection point of each and every fish that comes in. I know that this is a pipe dream but they do it in the killie world. Why not cichlids too??
 

peathenster

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I got two a week ago and they are starting to get their colors back, although rather slowly. Not doing much in the QT tank. The body shape is not too far off and I do think they are G. winemilleri.





I do think they look somewhat different from my other group. Here is a quick video of a pair that recently formed. Had to throw them in my G. altifrons tank for a few days while I work on their own tank, which caused quite a stir.
[YT]huIc9s-Bu_A[/YT]
 

Leptoe

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I got two a week ago and they are starting to get their colors back, although rather slowly. Not doing much in the QT tank. The body shape is not too far off and I do think they are G. winemilleri.





I do think they look somewhat different from my other group. Here is a quick video of a pair that recently formed. Had to throw them in my G. altifrons tank for a few days while I work on their own tank, which caused quite a stir.
[YT]huIc9s-Bu_A[/YT]
Those fish are simply stunning!!!
 

nature lover

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Got these in yesterday. Coloration still pale. 3 1/2". Sold as winemilleri but lack of preorbital marking, reddish orange coloration7Nov2018.jpg and striped/spotted tail makes me think sveni. Any opinions?
 
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